Smeargate
Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 at 12:58pm
30 responses
I only wanted to do a short blog on the whole McBride/ Draper smear email affair to say that I think that it is just so sad to see a political party so desperate as to come up with this type of negative, nasty campaigning. It does show that Labour on a UK level has stooped to a new low, and I don’t think this will reflect well on them in future elections. Its even more sickening as this has been orchestrated by one of Gordon Brown’s special advisers- from the heart of the New Labour government in Westminster. Special advisers have strict rules to keep to in terms of performing party political activity. McBride knew full well that what he was doing was unacceptable from the outset. Time will tell now whether any Ministers, or Gordon Brown himself will be implicated further in all of this mess.
Even if it was all to be orchestrated from the sidelines from a relatively unknown Labour party member, I could understand that a little bit more than it coming from the Government- they should have much more important things to do with their time than think of ways to ruin people’s careers. I always think that when people start to attack others on a personal level that they lose the argument straight away. Most people have little time for that type of action.
Where are the high level political debates? We are in the middle of a recession for pity’s sake! If this is Labour’s way of trying to divert attention away from economic problems, then this should be flagged up at every opportunity. People want to know about how the government is going to help people out of their financial difficulties, how they will help industry recover -not about their efforts in trying to smear high profile opposition politicians.
I’ve just read Nadine Dorries MP’s blog for the first time. She says this in one blog post-
‘Easter just hasn’t happened.
Spent most of it feeling sick, anxious and worried that any of my friends or family might think that a single word of what was in the emails was true’.
I do feel sorry for her having to fire fight, and to justify herself, and I believe that she is now taking legal action. McBride etc were obviously not thinking about the people behind the politicians. If they had done that for a second even, then they would not have even considered pressing send on those emails. Its OK for people to read about all of this on blogs and in the papers, but we forget how hard this is for those involved on a personal, practical level. I think I’ll end by linking to this article on the Independent’s website today. Says it all really.
Politics is a dirty business but Brown has brought a new brutality and deceit to the game that I haven’t come across before.
Barefaced lying about Wendy Alexander’s statement on a referendum,constantly briefing against internal enemies, this disgrace (what did Brown know and when did he know it?) and I am beginning to suspect those Glenrothes postal votes……
The government doesn’r reek of decay it stinks of evil to be honest.
This debacle shows that New Labour is well and truly FINISHED! – They have no-one to blame but themselves, I’m no Tory, But will be glad when these Champagne Socialists are out of office, at least you know you’re gonna get screwed by the Tories in the Government instead of continued disappointment by a Centre-Government trying to out-Tory The Tories!
NEW LABOUR 1994-2009 RIP
Unfortunately Welsh Labour aren’t any better, as Aneurin Glyndwr will testify. I wish they would make a clean break from London, I really do. Be Labour (politically) by all means, but WELSH Labour, a different party altogether.
All this is a natural climax to their culture of spin. You can’t control information (in the way they want) in the internet age. The truth will out. All political parties can do is be as transparent and as open as they can – if they get criticised, then respond. If you can’t respond, if you have to spin and manipulate to get your way out of it, then you shouldn’t have been doing the thing in the first place.
People want honesty. Plain speaking. Go-getters instead of talkers. And they will proclaim as much at the next election.
Bethan
I agree with what you say. Can you confirm and place on the record that none of your staff, nor anyone else employed by you is engaged in anonymous internet attacks on opposition policies?
And opposition politicians?
Bethan,
I think you are right to highlight how horrible some of this stuff is, families are not fair game, nor is such lurid (and crucially false) accusations. Your use of ‘Labour’ at all points of this seems a bit churlish, much to my chagrin.
I for one dont see this as a Party vehicle, frankly the hyper reality of Westminster gossip is nothing to do with the average member. But of course, you are the political elite, it is important that you are seen to making points.
Lastly, a bit of a challenge. Can you confirm that none of the Plaid bloggers doing so anonymously are not paid party or assembly staff? Do you concur with all the material on those blogs?
I suspect you cannot do either, that isnt intended as a dig, but i hope it does allow you to ponder the difficulty for all politicians and parties to truly be accountable for all the online material.
Ultimately, anonymity is the reason why such horrid behaviour is even entertained online.
marcus- it is New Labour in government now, that’s why I use the word so often. Its them doing it. Sure it probably happens across the board- point taken.
None of my staff are involved in anon blogs on the internet.
Excellent, i am glad you have gone on the record to say that.
The second point though – do you believe there are no plaid staff writing anonymous blogs, and if they are, none of that material is what you deem trivial and nasty?
What I find intriguing is the fact the BBC have shut down all their political blog sites.
I am begining to believe what is being said that they are the Government mouthpiece. Either that or they are running scared of doing or saying anything against the Labour Government. Also where is Lord Mandelson in all of this? normaly he is spreading himself right across the media outlets to justify things
One other point, what have the Mental Health charities got to say about the smear of the Politicians wife suffering from Mental illness?
What a sad and despicable lot this Labour Party have become. It is I am sure the begining of their end. Please!!!
Marcus Warner.
Marcus says, I for one dont see this as a Party vehicle, frankly the hyper reality of Westminster gossip is nothing to do with the average member.
Sorry Marcus the average member is a part of the whole party and as such has to take responsibilty. This is true of any organisation, you would be happy to accept it if this had been a more positive story for the Labour Party
Typical that Marcus will, instead of actually condeming the Labour lies, merely try to say everyone else is just as bad. Spin to the end, to the very end Marcus. Spin away. As a former anonymous blogger yourself (until you were found out), I imagine you know the ropes.
You also pretend not to know who ran Natwatch.
You’re as bad as the rest of them
Would it make a difference if the allegations were true? For example, if a politician is cheating on her / his partner are they fair game to being exposed since they are public figures? Should nobody’s private life ever be discussed in public, including those of footballers, pop stars, etc? Perhaps very strict privacy and censorship laws are the only way ahead to stop the media and the bloggers …
“The second point though – do you believe there are no plaid staff writing anonymous blogs, and if they are, none of that material is what you deem trivial and nasty?”
Marcus – Bethan has gone on the record and made a statement about her own staff. That’s where her responsibility lies, and no further. To ask her to suggest who other bloggers are risks the same sort of smear that we’re all so incensed about.
Staffers from all parties write blogs or comment on them. All of us who’ve spent any time in this noxious bubble know that. Asking others to out them is not fair on the person being challenged.
Attack is legitimate – though personally I prefer to read the positive aswell alongside it. Welsh Ramblings has its place, as does Aneurin Glyndwr. As I wrote on your blog earlier, AG is a very different beast to the Red Rag project which, from all indications, was intended to be just vile. I feel Welsh Ramblings is equally legitimate – especially now they’ve cleaned up their comments section and moderating it properly.
“the average member is a part of the whole party and as such has to take responsibilty.”
Don’t accept this at all Roger. The only responsibility they have perhaps is to stamp on such behaviour if they are aware of it. This whole business is a million miles away from ordinary party members.
Robust politics is one thing, smears and lies are another.
Going back to your original post Bethan, I do take issue with the phrase “coming from the Government”, which is perhaps too wide a net. Should have been “a key member of the Government” maybe, since that is where the focus lies (I do not count Derek Draper as member of the Government). At the moment it looks like just a couple of people are implicated, not the Government as a whole. Though I accept of course that the net may widen.
But on the substance of the original post, I think you have expressed well what people are thinking, within and without the bubble. I read Nadine Dorries’ blog too and it made me stop and think too.
So, now that we’re all agreed, can we discuss who set up and ran Natwatch, with the connivance of which party, and in the direct employ of which politicians? And can we reconsider the allegations they made, and the insults and smears they dealt in?
Or is that asking a question too many?
Daran.
Don’t accept this at all Roger. The only responsibility they have perhaps is to stamp on such behaviour if they are aware of it. This whole business is a million miles away from ordinary party members.
Fair enough Daran. Going back to my final point. This is true of any organisation, you would be happy to accept it if this had been a more positive story for the Labour Party.
Even the million miles away party member would be shouting from the rooftops and basking in the glory. You can’t have it all ways.
Roger,
Do you seriously suggest that somehow ordinary party members are to blame for the horrible, nasty work of Derek Draper and Damian McBride?
Darran – fair enough about Bethan, but she is on record questioning Labour (ie the whole party) and their approach to blogging. It seems a legitimate question to ask her about her own party’s record on this issue. My know
NuLab – ah yes, the usual diatribe. How many times can I possibly condemn McBride before you change the usual cowardly anon jibes? Read my blog.
The McBride scandal, despite being clearly something the Labour Party should front up and admit is a terrible event, does bring into question the use of staff to attack others via blogs (particularly anonymously). Out of this horrible episode, I hope all parties are clear in their condemnation of such attacks, and the use of public funded staff to do so. If it is a matter of public record, I have no other truck with it – exactly why I believe Bethan’s confirmation that none of her staff are writing such blogs. The hypocrisy of Plaid staff blogs calling for Labour AMSS’ to be sacked for blogging on taxpayers time is wrong regardless of McBride; McBride has merely shone a brighter light on the issue in my view.
My own experience and mistakes are pretty well documented, and certainly this is a key factor in my passion about this issue. Anonymous smears and attacks should not be carried out by party and assembly staff. Attacks are part and parcel of politics, look at any party political broadcast, but the crucial thing is accountability. If those attacks cross the line or are illegal, there is clear routes available to see who made those attacks – anon blogs do not allow that recourse.
Welsh Ramblings predicted the end of One Wales within a year –written by party staff, I would be very interested to hear Plaid politicians views on this prediction.
I want to be absolutely clear – I have no knowledge of who was behind natwatch, the site was before my time. Of course, like most, people have their suspicions, but I have never been in possession of any knowledge regarding who was behind that site, other than the odd bit of unsubstantiated gossip.
As a socialist who believes in self government for wales im probably a million miles from david cameron politically speaking.
But i cant help noticing that what seems to have been missed in all the justified furoe over the mcbride/draper planned smear operation is that it is barely a month since the cameron’s experienced the shattering loss of a child after a long and painfull illness!!
It is therefore instructive to spend some time contemplating the sobering fact that just as the cameron’s were trying to come to terms with the death of one of their children – mcbride and draper were it appears actively planning via the internet to ‘anonymously’ spread smears and in some cases outright lies with the express aim of damaging cameron and some of his his party colleages (both personally and politically it would seem!)
One has to ask what kind of human being is it – if indeed that is what mcbride and draper are – that would consider undertaking such dubious actions at a time when their principal ‘target’ would obviously still be grieving for the loss of their child?
And further what kind of political ‘culture’ is it that allows slime like draper to not only have an influence on political affairs but to until now propser even? (and we cannot content ourselves that this is something that is confined to westminister by the way)
New labour has had much to answer for during its 12 years in office – the illegal invasion of another country and the resultant deaths of hundreds of thousands of its people springs to mind! But the ‘culture of spin’ – first promoted enthusiastically by blair ‘aide’ alistair campbell of course – may well prove to be its most lasting and unwelcome contribution to political life in britian. A culture of spin that is now thankfully coming back to haunt them!
Bethan, the excellent Margareta Pagano article you pointed us to does have one worrying idea:
“Are there too many MPs? Should there be an age threshold – say 40 years old – so that our politicians have proper experience of life outside Westminster?”
I don’t know if this is an original notion or whether it has been floated elsewhere, but it would seem like an effective way of stifling younger people’s interest in politics and excluding the fresh (dare I say radical?) ideas and energy they bring to the political scene.
What does “Proper experience of life” mean for goodness sake? Probably a plan to exclude candidates for enough time to allow them to be indoctrinated into accepting the failed ideologies of the past while accumulating huge financial commitments which will render them more prone to fiddling expenses and fearful of losing their jobs. In other words, more lobby fodder….
Jeremy- yes, that is worrying. But she is writing from a mother’s perspective too, and she may be writing it in a way to protect her son from the notion of entering the political arena. THere is no age definition on having had a ‘proper experience of life’ in my opinion. You make a fair point.
Look, i think its well documented and open to debate regarding Labour’s spin operation. It was a clear response to the loss in the 1992 election. I dont think the McBride scandal is some common theme running through it necessarily, but there is no use saying this scandal belongs to anyone else.
The ‘culture of spin’ point is not credible when made by other politicians in other parties. I mean why does David Cameron pay Andy Coulson? Who was Bernard Ingham?
Do Plaid not employ ‘spinners’?
They employ people to write anonymous blogs dont they?
Marcus
In the words of Michael Winner from that advert “calm down my dear”.
As I stated before, (15) last paragraph, about good news. Even the million miles away party member would be shouting from the rooftops and basking in the glory. You can’t have it all ways.
you can’t have it always, you’ve got to take the rough with the smooth
Roger, that is true. But is hardly like you nats let up in the abuse anyway!
Marcus- its so funny how Labour use nat as if its a dirty word. We are Nationalists and proud of it!
Bethan,
Hence why i used it, you are nats, what is the beef?
Hear hear Bethan, mind you it is a change from what I used to be called by Labour Party members, a Bl…y Plaido or sometimes worse, but I took it with pride. I don’t suppose Labour Party members can wear their badge with pride today.
I love Wales and everything about it, its history, culture and most of all the beauty that is around us, to which those that close their eyes to it can not see it and that is a shame.
marcus
I’ve been looking back I didn’t realise I had been abusive you must have very thin skin.
I appologise if you think I have offended your sensitivity
marcus- come on, don’t tell me you don’t use it in a negative way. I listen to the way some people say it spitting blood!
er..isnt New Labour a british ‘nationalist’ party? And please no dross about new labour being ‘internationalist’
This is the party that while in govt in the last decade has dropped cluster bombs on serbia and been complicit in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent iraqis!
Oh it also allowed a fascist dictator responsible for the murders of thousands of chilean socialists to escape justice for his crimes against humanity!
New labour – the party of War and Death!
“marcus- come on, don’t tell me you don’t use it in a negative way. I listen to the way some people say it spitting blood!”
Much like the cyber nats who froth about ‘arch brit unionist’, ‘anti welsh’ blah blah.
And the plaid rebrand, sans cymru.
Bethan, they don’t spit blood they spit venom. Believe me, I have never known such hatred than when the Labour party speak about Plaid Cymru.
Yet they seem to conveiently forget how much the ‘nats’ helped the mining communities during the miners strike of 84-85. Read Hywel Francis book ‘History on our Side’.