Labour AMs whipped in to place
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 at 11:26am
16 responses
So, the Western Mail today reports that Labour AMs have been instructed not to join any group that I am hoping to get up and running to discuss the yes vote. The email from Labour’s Assembly office was leaked to the paper almost immediately after it was sent to AMs, which seems to indicate that there are people in Labour who are unhappy to be told what to do on this matter.
Lets get this straight- I’m not trying to pre-empt the work of the Convention at all. I’ve made it abundantly clear from the outset that the letter I sent was to try and gauge opinion, and to encourage a cross party discussion on the issue. If we wait until after the Convention has ended, it will be far too late for us to prepare the ground for a yes vote and to mobilise grassroots support. Its not for one particular party to lead the way, but as a member of a political party that has signed up to campaigning for a positive outcome to the referendum, I felt it only right to try and show that Plaid are ready to get the ball rolling.
As some people have noted in my previous post on this issue, other groups are already getting their act together on this issue on social networking sites and so on. Do politicians really want to be left behind?
If the yes people are being whipped, so should the no people.
I’d like to see the Tories try that with David Davies!!
C’mon Bethan, it doesn’t matter how many times you use the ‘gauge opinion’ line everyone knows what you are doing.
You and your plaid colleagues are attempting to get a head start on the yes campaign while dividing the Labour group at the same time. after all in your mind the convention is little more than a hurdle towards your ultimate aim, an independent Wales. It doesn’rt matter what the conclusions of that or any other enquiry/ analysis are, you made up your mind a long time ago.
Jim, my only aim is to initiate a debate. I have no intention on creating a split in Labour on this most important issue. They will do that of their own making.
Its hard to see why so many people are criticising this effort- damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Well at least you have initiated debate in this Bethan.
But it is funny how you get such a strong response when you discuss anything about Wales having more power.
Yet, if you discuss social issues such as eating disorders ,bullying or care pathway in the Health Service no one seems to want to join your discussions.
These are some things for which Wales could make a very big difference if we had the powers to make that difference.
Sadly all the dinosaurs can see and fear for some reason is that we may achieve a level of self confidence that will eventually prove how great a nation Wales could be.
Sad realy.
Jim – if you think that’s the case then presumably you’ll also attack the No camp for ‘making their minds up’ in advance of the debate too? Or will you only attack the right of people you disagree with to express themselves.
The convention is abotu devolution – I’m pro-devolution but it don;t mean I want independence. You’re the one distorting the issue with scare politics and stalinist debate-stifling.
I’m Labour and I want more powers for the Assembly. Why should my AM be gagged?
Politicians should be leaders not sheep – Labaaa has missed the point badly here.
It’s not about Plaid stealing a march, if it was Ieuan Wyn Jones would have written to Labour AMs. This is about politicians being brave, not sitting on the fence and taking a stance – it’s not even party political for God’s sake.
Roger, one of the reasons why Bethan gets more of a response when she discusses issues such as this compared to the other topics you mention,is because the way we decide on all those other matters is fundamentally affected by our constitutional arrangements and the way we are governed.
Having said that if you are saying that we should be concentrating on other matters and not talking about ‘powers’ all the time then I would have to agree.
What message does it send out to the workers of say Woolworths, when rather than discussing the economic crisis and helping people who are likley to lose their jobs, their elected representatives are talking about more powers for the assembly and not concentrating on making best use of their powers and levers already at their disposal.
Anon 7.52 I don’t think I really used any scare tactics, I merely stated my opinion on what I thought Bethans motives were.
I would happily criticise both Bethan and the no campaigners for jumping the gun.
The convention deserves the opportunity to come to a conclusion without the distraction of people playing games.
In what way is your AM gagged whenever I watch the Assembly on the telly I see little else but talking. You will need to present a better rational than that if you want to win any referendum.
I will take time to respond to these points when I have more time.I don’t think that I am jumping the gun, I did not send the letter from public finances, I do support the call for an Independent Wales but this is not the campaign at the moment. I thought that it was clear what my intentions were.Apologies if people are confused.
Jim
Yes we should be talking about the other issues mentioned. Which is exactly what Bethan Jenkins does in her Blog and also going out highlighting these issues in the community and working with the organisations concerned, all credit to her.
As for making the best of the powers and leavers at our disposal, well that is being tried and being found wanting in the lack of positive support from our MPs nit picking over everything they can. Perhaps with your knowledge and insight you could advise our AMs on making the best use of those powers and leavers at their disposal and be able to overcome that nit picking.
As Bethan Jenkins says the debate has already started. The No campaign who are also elected representatives, are already campaigning, therefore are you saying they should stop as well.
The Yes campaign has already begun on Social Network sites such as Facebook.
So rather than be left behind by the No campaign and the Social Networks, Bethan Jenkins is just trying to initiate debit to stop politicians being left behind.
As for discussing the economic crisis, I haven’t heard politicians talking about anything else and it is also a convenient tool to try and stifle debate on more powers for the Assembly from the Yes side. While I haven‘t heard any complaint from you about the No side putting their point of view during this economic crisis.
Well, my AM is gagged because I know for a fact that my AM is pro-further powers and would liek to join a cross Party Yes group, just like the cross Party No group that Labour are NOT stopping their politicians from joining.
Therefore my AM is gagged – receiving emails form the whip, plus plenty of other pressure not to voice their opinion.
Jim – here again I am puzzled: you think a cross-party No campaign headed by a right-wing Thatcherite Tory and a New Labour councillor is somehow free of an agenda, but you impute an agenda to those who want a Yes campaign.
Double-standards, I’d say.
You want to see the gagging proces sis action, qwrite to your AM about whether they are in favour of more powers. The ones who aren;t will say no, the ones who are will not say anything.
Thisis one you can try at home if you like.
Your AM is a Labour AM I take it. Then they should follow party line in the same way the idiots starting an unofficial no campaign should. It is what we do in political parties.
Just out of interest who is your AM.
Jim’s lost this debate and actually, the pathetic pace gathered by the ‘no’ campaign lead by those careerist racist, sexist idiots who try to distort the point of the referendum (it’s NOT about independence!) will force people to vote yes.
I didn’t care or know about the powers issue and was sceptical about getting more for wales because it might lead to independence. But recently, since readinga bout it i’ve realized how rubbish our Assembly is and we have to have more power to run the country properly.
Labour seem paranoid about any power increase for the wrong reasons – 1. it calls the existance of all those sheep in westminster into question 2. they think ‘the nashis’ are coming to eat their children.
Grow up labour, I’ll be voting yes because of your idiots like Touhig!
They should consider how much better and more democratic Wales would be run if we had more power.
As for the economy – I’d link the two issues. Do you honestly think that (safe, Labout voting) Wales will be on top of Brown’s priorities with the comming crisis and election period? Or will he pander to middle england again and again? Has he actually bothered with wales lately? or ever?
I’ve a few nashi friends and one noted something rcently, he said
“you know Steve, people have said for decades, probably longer, that Wales wouldn’t work as an independent country – it couldn’t affoard it. People seem to ignore the fact that Britain can’t affoard to be independent any more!”
Actually, I think those campaigning for a no vote are also jumping the gun.
Lets wait and see what the convention has to say, in the meantime lets get on with helping the Welsh people through these tough economic times.
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