Debate on Gaza at the Assembly
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 at 4:47pm
19 responses
I’ve been away from the blogosphere of late- apologies- again. It seems that however much I try to take things a little slower this term, the more impossible it becomes! I’m really pleased by the news from the Assembly’s business committee that Rhodri Glyn Thomas AM’s efforts in tabling a named day debate on the situation in Gaza has been accepted, and that we will have an hour long debate next Wednesday around 2.30pm here in the Assembly. I hope that those who are interested in the situation in Gaza will attend, and we will be organising a meeting beforehand also to garner momentum for the ensuing debate.
This is a pressing issue, which Welsh citizens clearly care about judging by the protests and public meetings that have and are still being organised in Wales. Its only right therefore that AMs have the opportunity to debate such issues- despite us not having the power over International affairs- unfortunately. Today’s news that a medical centre has been targeted by Israeli forces is another reason why we must keep this issue on the political agenda.
I am really disapointed that Barak Obama has said nothing on this issue apart from the fact that he is keeping an eye on it until he takes office. The argument for not commenting now doesn’t wash- he has already made clear statements on what he intends to do in Guantanamo, Iraq and Iran, so why not the situation in Palestine? George Bush is laughing his way to his Texan retirement home -thinking that he has tied the US into supporting Israel regardless of their blatantly unacceptable behaviour in bombing Gaza to destruction. Until the US shifts its position, shows that Obama’s election is the ‘real change’ that everyone has been waiting for, and initiates communication with Israel and Hamas, then a positive future seems less viable. So I urge you all to attend the debate next week at the Assembly, and to lobby AMs to support the motion in noting the situation in Gaza.
On another International issue, I met with many members of the Iraqi Christian Association in Wales yesterday. They gave me a clear insight in to the plight of minorities in Iraq, and the way that they are treated by the many tribal leaders in Iraq. One person said to me ‘ Yes, we had Saddam Hussein, he was one Dictator. Now we have 40 of them’. There was a divergence of opinion amongst the group as to the occupation- some initially supported US and British involvement, believing that Iraq would be a better, more democratic place without Saddam, others were cynical of this ever happening when outside forces were dictating the agenda in Iraq.
One thing is clear however, they are now all unanimous in that the occupation has led to destruction and poverty in Iraq, and that as Christians, they are being sent from their homes, being held to ransom, and attacked on the streets. I met 3 elderly Iraqi women at the meeting in Swansea- all of whom are over 70 years old. They have been instructed to return to Iraq, but they have no homes, or families to return to. Deportation officials tell them that they will not be sent back to Iraq for now, but that they will not be given status in Wales, or any support from the authorities bar a few measly meal tokens from Tescos.
This seems a barbaric way to treat such elderly women. I believe that the Westminster government knows that it is unsafe for them to return, but if they acknowledge that by granting them asylum, it will be an inevitable admission of their failure to rebuild Iraq as a democracy, as a shining light in the Middle East. In a very black and white analysis of religion, Christians in Iraq have been associated automatically with Western governments by some Muslim extremist groups, and are targeted as a result of this belief. From what I have read in the press, and from what I have heard from the Iraqis that I spoke to, their voices and concerns are being put at the bottom of the pile. How long will this continue? How long will the Westminster government try and ignore what is happening on the ground in Iraq?
I hope to organise an event in the Assembly with the Association in the near future so that other AMs can take an interest in this matter- affecting constituents in their region and beyond.
On the final issue today, I raised the fact that there was a protest today against the demolition of Troed y Ton Care Home by the Labour run Council in Bridgend. There was a protest today at the Council offices, which I could not attend unfortunately as I have to be here on a Tuesday. Judging by the Facebook group on this matter, and from emails from campaigners, it seems that little consultation was carried out with residents and carers, or at least there was a lack of clarity about what would happen, where the current residents would be moved to, and where staff would work. I echoed the Deputy Commissioner for Older People’s concerns on the closure of care homes, and called on the government to conduct and inquiry on how care home closures are managed, and to assess fully the affects on communities.
The debate should discuss Tony Blair’s invisibility on the Gaza question despite the fact that he is a well paid envoy to the Middle East. Clearly going to the US to receive a medal from Bush for being his loyal lapdog is more important than challenging Israel’s disproportionate response to the Hamas attacks…disgraceful.
why is the assembly talking about stuff it can make no difference to?
whatever you think about the argument for more powers, foreign policy is reserved for the UK parliament therefore any assembly talking shop is a complete waste of time…there are pressing issues to be dealt with which the assembly does have power over, why doesn’t it talk about them instead?
Why do you keep suggest that a deal needs to be struck between Hamas and Israel. There can never be and there will never be a deal between Hamas and Israel, because Hamas believes all Jews should be wiped out of the Middle East. They are hardline fundamentalists who have systematically destroyed any chance of a two-state solution over the last few years, and threaten to do the same over the next ten years. Through their constant baiting of Israel through daily rocket attacks they have betrayed the Palestinian people they claim to represent. Bethan, as a young woman with purported liberal views I am astonished that you would seek to give succour to a fundamentalist group like Hamas – you decry George Bush, but he looks like Richard Dawkins next to Khaled Mashaal.
craig w- because Welsh citizens are concerned about International issues, and we should show leadership in taken such issues on board, and debating them.
Iwan- how can a deal be brokered if Hamas is not included?
of course Welsh citizens are concerned about such issues, the majority of them are internationalist in outlook rather than nationalist.
That is not the point, if the assembly cant make an actual difference on an issue then any debates aren’t going to lead to anything. You cant take leadership on an issue if you cant do anything about it.
The assembly has long breaks for recess and only meets in the chamber a cpl of times a week, my question is whether this is the best use of the limited window for debates that the assembly timetable presents?
Craig- a member from any party can draft a named day motion on a subject. It is for the business committee to say yes or no to that- and assess it on its merits. Personally I believe that we should be able to debate such issues. We talk about the economy every day here in the Assembly, but we don’t have the powers over many areas. Should we therefore not mention those elements in the debate?
People want the Assembly to show leadership, and show vision. How bad did it look when Rhodri Morgan, when questioned on Question Time, did not give an opinion on the Iraq war?
I believe the only comment that Barack Obama has made on Gaza was esentally he did not blame the Israelis for taking a defensive position. This not what you want to hear I am sure!
I hardly think it is the same; Rhodri was on question time and asked a direct question.
I very much doubt the national media will jump on the assembly in the same way for saying nothing about Gaza.
Can you imagine an editor telling his staff to hold the front page, we have not heard anything from Rhodri and Carwyn yet.
The people of Wales want to know what support the Assembly will be giving to those people who have lost their jobs, not what they think on foreign policy matters. (however tragic they are)
They correctly want to hear from the foreign sec and PM as they can actually have an impact on the situation.
But, the economy is an issue which is effecting people throughout Wales. You may not have any powers over it, and nor should you, but given recent events it is an issue of critical importance. Can the same honestly be said of what is happening in the Middle East? Your debate, however good willed, is essentially meaningless and wastes valuable time that could be spent far more productively.
Enough is enough. Israel has set itself apart from the civilized world with it’s ruthless attack on Gaza and murder of 1,000 civilians.
I’ve signed the petition “Suspend EU-Israel Association Agreement”. I’m asking you to sign this petition to help us reach our goal of 25,000 signatures. I hope you will support our efforts. Go to http://www.thepetitionsite.com/petition/837431369/
I’m also supporting the BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions) Movement. You can read more about it at http://www.bepj.org.uk.
I can understand you anger at Israel over his attack. However where is the balance? Not once have I ever heard you address the issue of Hamas refusal to recognize Israel’s right to exist. Its easy to shed crocodile tears for the innocent people of Gaza. The fact remains though Hamas is regarded as a terrorist organization in Europe as well as the US, and elsewhere. Yes negotiate with Hamas. The Israelis are already doing that. It’s a shame that the elected Hamas leadership in Gaza has to take orders from Tehran/Damascus by those who are not suffering.
israel has not ‘murdered’ 1000 civilians as Jeremy Clulow claims… many of those killed in gaza have been hamas combatants! Worse still hamas has been using schools and hospitals as cover for their battle with israeli forces, despite the obvious risks this poses to the civilians in these places as israeli forces respond to sniper fire or boobytraps left in the entrances to public buildings by hamas!
Of course any civilian deaths are too many but hamas must accept its share of the blame for this sorry sstate of affairs – the israelis are merely defending themelves and their people as any responsible government would be expected to do.
Are they supposed to turn a blind eye while hamas supportes bombards israeli civilians with iranian supplied rockets day after day, week after week and month afer month? Even after a earlier ceasefire was agreed hamas did nothing to stop the missile attacks on israeli towns!!
I would also remind this correspondent that israel – unlike every other country in the region eg syria, iran, saudi arabia – is very much a part of what he calls the ‘civilized world’ Unlike every other country in the region israel is a democracy in which people are free to organise and contest elections whatever their politics!
Thus there is a sizeable and organised left in israel with trade unionists and socialists organising openly and freely – indeed there have been sizeable protests against the recent events in gaza in israel itself organised by the israeli left!
Israel – unlike every other country in the region – has an independent and free press in which commentators regularly criticise the israeli forces and israeli govt when it is felt they are in the wrong!
While israel – again unlike every other country in the region – has a independent judiciary and legal system! A legal system under which israeli women and gay people enjoy the same rights as anyone else and where there is no death penalty – a situation which would be unthinkable in countries such as iran, saudi arabia, syria and even gaza itself where gay people are openly lynched, women are routinely murdered in so called ‘honour killings’, girls are denied an education and capital punishment – often in the most brutal manner – is the norm!!!
So i am bound to ask the likes of Jeremy Clulow if he is so concerned with promoting ‘civilized’ values across the world why is he not calling for a boycott of countries like iran syria and saudi arabia? As these brutish societies and the regimes that run them are manifestly not a part of the ‘civilized world’!
for those who want to know more bout the peace movement and the left in israel here’s couple of useful links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meretz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Now
Clearly it goes without saying that these will be of no interest to those whos real motive is to bring about the end of the state of israel – such as the organisers of the so called ‘boycott’ and ‘disinvestment ‘ campaigns’!!!
Thankyou, Bethan, for bringing this matter to public attention.
There seems to be a drive to censure the facts concerning the atrocities in Palestine, suggestions that the people of Wales would sooner hear about anything else, rather than an open debate on the complexities of strife between the numerous factions that battle for control of the wealth of the globe.
Behind the Israelis, not only is there political support from Washington, but also the financial and military power of the US, and to some extent, there is support from the UK government.
American and British citizens are told that the “terrorists” are why we allocate billions of pounds worth of taxpayer support to the “war against terrorism”.
However, in Germany, a former minister,(Technology/defense)Andreas Von Bulow, is on record as stating without doubt, the agencies of the CIA and Mossad were behind the nefarious attacks of 9/11.
In Italy, the former prime minister, Francesco Cossiga, has also gone on official record stating that he too is absolutely certain that the CIA and Mossad were the perpetrators of 9/11.
Most of the UK government has been lamentably tight-lipped over what they may or may not know, with the possible exception of labour party “outsider”, Michael Meacher who quite some years ago, added his deconstructionalist editorial of the “official version.”
To suggest that Wales and the people threin, have nothing to do with “The war against terror” is misleading, the British Army and Airforce and Navy all train here, they recruit here, our taxes support the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, our factories churn out armaments.
To suggest that the Assembly cannot make a difference, or that we the people of Wales should not be concerned about deception, lies and murderous assaults on civilians, is an affront, and above all, it demeans the death of so many innocents.
bethan have to say im shocked you should permit the very worst kind of crackpot conspiracy theories to appear on your blog, of which the post from ‘son of Ieuan’ is a horrifying example!!
There is simply no evidence whatsoever to link the intelligence services of israel or the US to the 9/11 atrocity in new york in 2001. The attack was masterminded and executed by islamic fundamentalists – most of whom of course being saudi nationals.
Advocates of this obscene claim also invariably claim that no jews died in the twin towers – an outrageous lie of course – and that the protocols of the elders of zion are a genuine historical document that reveal a jewish conspiracy to control the world (interestingly hamas says just this on its website)
Von bulow has admitted his book was largely researched by perusing the internet. His ‘research’ being so shoddy that Germany’s leading newspaper – der speigel – recently ran a front page article giving a point by point rebuttal to von bulow’s deranged claims!
While Francesco Cossiga was exposed in the 1990s as being part of the extreme right wing anti-communist network gladio, and was supported in his bids for the italian presidency by the neo-fascist Italian social movement.
Bethan, I would like to reiterate Iwan’s very pertinent comment regarding the true nature of Hamas. If you will take the trouble to read the Hamas Charter you will see that it is an abominably racist document of Nazi-like anti-semitic complexion. Indeed, Hamas bases its hatred of Jews (note, not just Israelis but Jews) on Nazi propaganda and on the nineteenth-century Russian forgery known as “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. Hamas wants the State of Israel (i.e. the state founded in 1948 in the pre-1967 ceasefire boundaries) totally destroyed, and has called in its Charter and as recently as last week in a video made by one of its leaders for Jews outside Israel to be murdered. Unlike Fatah, it cannot (at least not yet) be a negotiating partner for Israel because it is not interested in the two-state solution to the tragedy of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, a solution to which most Palestinians and Israelis are committed. Hamas is armed and funded by Iran, the country that is hell-bent on acquiring nuclear weapons with a view to obliterating Israe.
I think few people will disagree that the people of Gaza have suffered an appalling tragedy, but it was Hamas that put Israel in an impossible situation by firing rockets into Israel’s civilian areas for eight years; Israel pleaded in vain for outside help in ensuring that Hamas could not acquire these weapons, and after eight years Israel obviously decided it had no recourse but to act, since the range of these missiles is getting longer and longer and will soon threaten Tel Aviv.
Leigh Richards’ posts are shocking. Hamas is a religious movement and thus I don’t support it, but let’s be clear its existence is a by-product of Israel’s occupation of Palestinian land and the fact that Palestinians have to live under a state of almost constant siege.
your wrong nicholas – hamas is a fascist movement! It has carried out a systematic programme of assassination, imprisonment and toture of its political opponents and journalists in gaza, resutling in the independent human rights watch organisation calling for its leaders to be tied fro ‘crimes aaginst humanity’. It also pioneered the use of so called ‘suicide bombings’
It owes its ‘existence’ to islamic fundamnentalist regime in iran, who fund it and supply it with the rockets it has been firing into israel.
Piece of advive for you nicholas – at least bother to do a modicum of research before you post on here!
Leigh, I am honestly stumped that you can talk about any ‘systemattic programme of assassination’ in a post that defends Israel! Do you also condemn Israel’s programme of assassination of Palestinian political leaders (not just Hamas ones either)?
You are also incorrect in your assertions, Hamas actually owes it’s position in Gaza (more important than just ‘existing’ because of Iran) to the votes of the people of that territory. And the occupation of that territory is what made their election possible.